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Title: Rage Generation
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Levan
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Rank:Admin
Score: 985
Posts: 197
Registered: 04/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours

(Date Posted:06/28/2007 2:05 PM)

I have searched the web many times for a decent explanation of threat/aggro and the generation of threat. There are so many guides/posts on "reputable" sites that are severely flawed. The following link however is one of the best I have seen.http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.php?t=9258 Explained very well imo. The only serious flaw I see ( it is 3:30 am there may be more) Is the table for threat generated by all the different Warrior attacks makes it appear that Sunder armor is one of your best choices. Now I am not saying nor ever have said Sunder is not good, in fact it is necessary for effective dps/raiding AND Threat Generation. What I have always said (Since BC) is that it is overated for PURE threat generation. What the table doesn't completelyshow is the increased benefit in threat generation from attacks like Shield Slam, Revenge and Heroic Stike due to the fact that you are doing damage (which builds threat) in addition to the base threat generated by each of these attacks. If you do not know it already, Shield Slam is often a prot warriors highest dps attack in defensive stance. When I crit a Shield a slam it is not unusual for me to gain 2k Threat plus on the meter. Revenge is a very high dps attack as well, doingweapon damage and400-500 additional damage to your target. Heroic Strike adds 176 additional damage to your attack. This is the important part, where threat generation is concerned............Sunder Armor adds ZERO additional damage to your attack. You get ONLY it's base threat generation and the benefit of the armor debuff on the mob (which obviously has long term benefits) In the WoW World before BC tanks could, for the most part, spam Sunder and hold threat....the times have changed my friends. For fun tonight I cleared trash in Kara, on the way to Shade using ZERO sunders on many of the pulls...and had ZERO aggro holding issues. On top of that I wasn't even Prot specced so had no Shield Slam or bonus threat generation. When I'm Prot I start my threat generation cycle the same way every Boss and on most trash pulls........Bloodrage (I don't use BR until I already have aggro from prox or Range pull because there is a small threat boost from BR), Shield Slam, Revenge (if it is up) start spamming heroic strike.....and I basically don't stop spamming heroic strike until the fight ends (unless I have a huge threat lead and feel like being lazy;>Then I cycle through Shield Slam, Revenge and Shield Block keeping all 3 on cool down (rage permitting)and begin tossing up Sunders. Sometimes I get sunders up fast because revenge isn't up. If I crit a Shield Slam and get a huge threat lead I get sunders up as quickly as I can because obviously they increase my dps, which increases my threat.But I ALWAYS keep Shield Slam and Revenge on cooldown. Now in an IDEAL world a tank could start out putting up 5 sunders then Raid dps could begin and almost no tank would have threat issues. But dpsers just won't wait so we tanks have to do our best to use our skills to build threat as FAST AS POSSIBLE. Frankly with this cycle I often build a HUGE threat lead then coast a bit....unless we have killer Raid Dps and then I have to keep working ;> Anyways, just a few thoughts. Comments/suggestions appreciated as always.Levan

SecretCow
1# 



Rank:Admin
Score:725
Posts:145
From: USA
Registered:02/24/2007
Time spent: 909 hours


(Date Posted:06/29/2007 2:47 AM)

Sunders have never been huge on my priority list, but after I get past my first shield slam cooldown, I will start stacking sunders. The thing I like about heroic strike threat generation, especially on bosses where rage is no issue, is it does not trigger your global cooldown, so you can spam away on your HS while working between your shield slam, devastate, thunderclap (not for threat generation, but I keep it up for damage reduction, consider it as negative haste rating) and of course revenge. Revenge is hard to work into a rotation, since its dependent on missing the target with a melee attack. I generally just hit it when I see its up, and I'm looking for the next best thing to hit after a shield slam.

I read somewhere that sunder armor attacks still generate their full amount of threat after you have already stacked five on the target. Granted, they don't have any additional threat generation from damage done, so in my opinion, your rage and (far more importantly) your cooldowns are better spent on shield slam, revenge, and devastate. I know in all of karazhan this week, I lost only one mob due to lack of aggro generation, because the bastage never hit me, 0 damage taken from it means very little rage to work with. I attribute the record to the hunters on large part; I never told them to or discussed it in any way, but between the two hunters I had this week, I had a MD on basically every pull.

In the end, my spell rotation is pretty random, and erratic. I likely never really do the same thing twice, and most of it is just a robotic rambling of zombified button mashing. I am becoming increasingly convinced that it is a good thing to switch into battle stance when under 20% HP remaining in a boss fight, and start executing. When a boss is hitting you hard enough to give you 40-80 rage per hit, that dumps some pretty serious damage into the mob, and threat along with it. The bosses I will not do this with are the upper level ones like Nightbane or Maulgar; cases where you are required to keep spamming shield block. I will investigate this further, and report back in a week or something on it.
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Ferrix
2# 



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Registered:06/18/2003
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(Date Posted:07/09/2007 2:34 AM)

Isn't the beauty of Devastate that you gain additional threat based on the number of sunders currently on the mob, and that is renews the sunder timer?

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Master of War
Ferrix lvl 50 Celtic Spear Hero - WGW
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Ferrix
3# 



Rank:Admin
Score:3830
Posts:766
Registered:06/18/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/18/2007 10:16 PM)

I've noticed through my time of tanking without being protection spec'd that Rend and ThunderClap are a very good ways to gain threat.  Thunderclap helps when extra rage is available and other attacks timers may not have reset set, it is a significant threat boost.  Also tossing a rend on mobs allows you to generate free threat as the rend ticks, its not alot per tick but it adds up fast, especially while tanking when not protection spec'd.

I don't have a set pattern of attacks i use either, but it's normally Heroic + Sunder or Revenge depending on which is up.  I toss in Shield Slam, ThunderClap, Rend(if not immune), and Devestate in some sort of rotation. 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Master of War
Ferrix lvl 50 Celtic Spear Hero - WGW
Galgothan lvl 50 Valewalker - WGW
Mooooose lvl 20 BM - WGW (LGM WC)
Timarn 50 Warrior - Dogs of War (WCer in training)
Pherrix 50 Shaman - WGW - Gareth (LGM Spellcrafter)
Roraug Healer - Dogs of War - Gareth (LGM Armor Crafter)
Greaven Skald - WGW - Gareth
Rilldin (Damn Mythic"s name nerfing - formally Ridlin) 50 Runemaster - Dogs of War - Gareth
Ferrix - Night Elf Priest - WGW (WoW)

"Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less" -- Robert E. Lee

Positive1Lock
4# 



Rank:Admin
Score:75
Posts:15
Registered:09/11/2006
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:09/05/2007 6:41 PM)

Jay!!!! Thats not a warrior!!!!! it looks like a japanese anime cartoon figure in my nephews pokemon card game!!!! get back to daoc~!

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Positive 10lx warlock
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Helgakvioa 4Lx valkyrie

Orochimaro
5# 



Rank:Admin
Score:360
Posts:72
Registered:06/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:09/06/2007 2:10 PM)

LOL still playing daoc posi??

Hey all (Oro sighting)What have you all been up? I just put daoc to bed and currently playing nada, was thinking about making another appearence in wow....time will tell though, anyways cya all in wow or when WAR comes out.

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Orochimaro lvl 51 rr5 Bm of pure assault! -MLF HiB

Oro lvl50 Shaman rr7,Top Dog-Gareth MiD
Akenzu a lvl50 rr7 wth pwnage Warlock!-Gareth MiD /nod
Orola LvL 50 valk
~<5 midgets spanking a man covered in thousand island dressing... is that making Love?>~
See you in teh woods...

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